Nick Griffin on Question Time, a liberal view

Nick Griffin on Question Time, a liberal view

October 23, 2009  |  General

Last night, Ques­tion Time: the BBC’s ‘polit­ical debate’ show, invited the leader of the BNP onto the panel. This caused a lot of furore in the papers and calls for the gov­ern­ment to refuse to appear or send in a ‘bug gun’ to shoot the BNP down. The res­ult was that vet­eran politi­cian Jack Straw was dis­patched to inform what the gov­ern­ment think of the BNP. They were not happy about being on such a panel with him.

How­ever, I say they should be.

The most import­ant thing for a demo­cracy to be is open. Open­ness is the armour and the sword that truly defeats racism, or indeed any sort of ‘ism. What open­ness says is that, “you may not skulk in the dark throw­ing angry lies or extreme opin­ions about without hav­ing the spot­light put on you.” This has led to a pecu­liar creature being born in the halls of power; politi­cians who are not allowed to have their own views. That is to say, they are not allowed to express them. They must toes a party-line, or stand as an inde­pend­ent. Keep­ing quiet and “on-message” is so import­ant that it is almost impossible to get a straight and dir­ect answer from any politi­cian and the attempt to do so is the format of many a new pro­gram and debate show.

Ques­tion Time is such a show and, for the pur­poses of pre­tend­ing to host real debates, it has a panel.  Pan­els are a format that pitches the polit­ical group dir­ectly towards the audi­ence. This is not the plat­form for debate between the people in the panel as they are not truly facing each other. Rather it is sup­posedly a way of answer­ing the audience’s ques­tions on a one to one basis. The entire panel are allowed to sound off on a sub­ject and they are sup­posed to answer only for them­selves. How­ever, often, and this is not dis­cour­aged, they actu­ally sound off on the people who have spoken before them. There­fore, a Labour MP may go first and a Tory then spends 3 minutes try­ing to blow the Labour argu­ment to pieces. There is very little time for coun­ter­ar­gu­ment, so basic­ally the exper­i­enced politi­cians have no choice but to be very ‘safe’ in what they say and even more ‘on mes­sage’ than normal.

Enter Mr Griffin.

bnp-leader-nick-griffin-pic-pa-115460673

Leader of the far-right party; the BNP

All coun­tries have a broad spec­trum of polit­ical opin­ions. In the aver­age European coun­try, the major­ity opin­ion will be Chris­tian Demo­crat. This means two things. Firstly, the Chris­tian part refers to the eth­ical frame­work of their moral and legal sys­tem being based on the Christian-religious mor­als of the pre­vi­ous ages. The demo­crat part is a state­ment of belief in the powers of a demo­cracy, some­thing most Europeans strongly sup­port and have fought for in the viol­ence of Europe’s past. How­ever, this is the major­ity. Amongst the rest of the people there will be a more frac­tured sub­set and inde­pend­ent groups of people who want to be dif­fer­ent. There are the Lib­er­als, the Com­mun­ists, the Anarch­ists (all very sim­ilar in nature) and many oth­ers, includ­ing the Mon­ster Rav­ing Loon­ies, the True Nat­ural Law party and even the ‘far right’. The BNP are a far right party that define them­selves by want­ing, what is at the very least, a “strong” change in Britain:

Non “nat­ural” Brit­ish out. As if being Brit­ish can be defined by mere genes.

They say that this change is to defend against the mod­ern gen­o­cide of the Brit­ish people, but the truth is this is not a Brit­ish ques­tion. In fact, it has been with us (and all nations) since the dawn of time.

It is the Ques­tion of “foreigners”.

The Magna Carta, England’s first doc­u­ment of rights and lauded at all levels as the first step towards demo­cracy, actu­ally con­tained dir­ectly racist views in it. In its case against the Jew­ish people, who it advised against bor­row­ing from. Such sen­ti­ments against so called “for­eign influ­ence” have always been debated and indeed inflamed by the racist policies con­tained within a minor­ity. How­ever, hav­ing such people in the demo­cracy is a vital part of the polit­ical process.

Why?

Because demo­cracy only works is it is totally rep­res­ent­at­ive of all the views in the coun­try rather than just the majority.

There comes a time when the pre­vail­ing winds and tribu­la­tions require a change in lead­er­ship in the Com­mons. This tends to drift between the two main Chris­tian Demo­cratic parties, but in the past has drif­ted the way of the Lib­er­als or fur­ther. This is in response to gen­eral feel­ing in the coun­try and the situ­ations and chal­lenges to be found in the world. Such change become mean­ing­less without free­dom to debate it. People like Griffin throw the oth­ers into 3d, his views provide the con­trast for the others.

For example, Churchill is often exposed as a Tory hero. How­ever, keep in mind that his actions dur­ing WWII (such as the bomb­ing of Dresden) would be illegal today. I am not sug­gest­ing that they were any­thing but neces­sary back then, rather that we could not real­ist­ic­ally judge where he would stand today. In fact, it is import­ant to remem­ber that Churchill was a mem­ber of a Lib­eral gov­ern­ment as well as a Tory Prime min­is­ter; he was able, as was more accept­able in MPs back then, to change his point of view as needed.

225px-Churchill_portrait_NYP_45063

Churchill, con­sidered the greatest ever Brit­ish politi­cian.

Such chan­ging is not wel­comed today.

The parties in a demo­cracy are an indic­a­tion of the dis­tri­bu­tion of the views held by the col­lect­ive. There­fore, there will always be a ‘nation­al­ist’ view­point and in fact that is import­ant. Without a rep­res­ent­a­tion of such views, groups of people, per­haps large groups, would be feel­ing sig­ni­fic­antly mar­gin­al­ised and pos­sibly become more viol­ent. Bring them into the lime­light and such beha­viour will not stand the scru­tiny. This worked with the Irish Ter­ror­ist parties far bet­ter than ignor­ing or ban­ning them did. To me, the real danger in a demo­cracy is that the sys­tem will degen­er­ate into a two-part state. An issue found cur­rently in the US, where the two parties are essen­tially identical and all non-mainstreamed voices are silenced. What silen­cing them does is dis­en­fran­chise minor­ity opin­ion and lead to a sys­tem where the major­ity party has no checks and bal­ances what­so­ever. This leads to agen­das being for­war­ded, without chal­lenge, and that can be mon­strous. Con­sider the US inva­sion of Iraq, all dis­sent­ing voice, all of it, was viciously attacked in the press. The fact that the major­ity had whipped itself up into frenzy and stopped listen­ing to any other voices meant that the dis­astrous inva­sion went ahead with enorm­ous backing.

This lead to over 500,000 people being killed.

Half a million.

Minor­ity opin­ion is vital to a healthy run­ning demo­cracy. It is a way of tak­ing the pulse of a nation. It does not need to be feared or encour­aged; it just needs to be heard.

So, if that is enshrined in the demo­cratic sys­tem, what is the problem?

The prob­lem is over-exposure. The parties that appeared on the Ques­tion  Time panel know all too well that it is not a debate show. None of them treated it as such and all of them attacked Griffin. By allow­ing the BNP onto the show, they feared that it will expose the racist minor­ity view to more people than it nat­ur­ally appeals to. What Mr Griffin said on the show was illu­min­at­ing: he said very little. He stayed away from the cent­ral mes­sage of his party, a mes­sage that car­ries the expli­cit notion of the “nat­ural superi­or­ity” of the “whites” and instead focussed on a view that is only the tip of that ice­berg: immig­ra­tion.
Not sur­pris­ing really.

The panel attacked Griffin relent­lessly for what they claimed he said in other formats and at other times, while at the same time cri­ti­cising him for defend­ing him­self using the same meth­ods. He did not rise to it at all and that was a wor­ry­ing sign for it shows that he isn’t just a racist idiot; he is also a politician.

The BNP knows that merely being invited onto Ques­tion Time was a suc­cess. The other parties know it too and unfor­tu­nately turned the pro­gram into an attempt to dis­credit the view­point of the BNP and not debate them. Per­haps the BBC really knows that any proper debate comes from the people watch­ing the show at home. In my house­hold, the pro­gram lead to a ser­i­ous debate that went on for hours and con­tin­ued this morn­ing. Debate that turned angry and upset. Debate that was per­sonal and like the draw­ing of a wound. In other words: debate that was vital. I sus­pect that this was a pat­tern repeated all up and down the country.

That is good for the whole demo­cratic pro­cess itself.

At the moment, the gov­ern­ment does not want debate on any­thing. They sign up to things like the European Treaty without ask­ing the people or any­one else.  They never asked if we should go to war with Afgh­anistan. They are not inter­ested in actu­ally enga­ging with any dis­sent­ing voices and do everything they can to silence them. They never engage in debate at all when not in par­lia­ment, they instead focus only on “message.”

By put­ting Griffin on this pop­u­lar show and hav­ing MPs attack him, the BBC has allowed the real debate to open.

So what is my opin­ion on all this?

I am a philo­sopher and my polit­ical opin­ion is quite close to anarcho-syndicalism or per­haps social liber­tarian. My polit­ical hero’s are Voltaire, Ghandi and Lao Tzu. What I believe in is egalitarianism:

a polit­ical doc­trine that holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same polit­ical, eco­nomic, social, and civil rights

As a moral philo­sopher and hav­ing trav­elled around the world, I find myself becom­ing more lib­eral. I find myself dis­lik­ing the cor­por­ate ruled world we are in, ser­i­ously dis­lik­ing wars in other coun­tries for reli­gion and oil, not afraid of any­one what­so­ever and against the aggress­ive over poli­cing of the people in the UK.

I remain pro choice, pro gays, pro Europe, but anti news­pa­pers, anti celebrit­ies and anti globalisation.

I have many friends (about 40% of my chums) from eth­nic back­grounds, but to me they are all Brit­ish. Not black, not “them and I”, but British.

I do not care for Mr Griffins views, and I will not argue them here nor link to them (rais­ing his pro­file on the web — try goggle for the worst of it). I do not believe in the hate filled mani­festo he has writ­ten, but on the other hand; I feel that such voices are not only to be heard, but also to a cer­tain extent pro­tec­ted. Griffin may have abhor­rent views, but I would rather he has the chance to spout them in pub­lic, where he can be chal­lenged, than in a private room where all debate is lost and with it: our cul­tural love of democracy.

As Voltaire him­self said, “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”

Regards,

Basho

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  • KierO
    “All fanatics should be taken out and shot” - I wonder who that was....haha.
  • tom frost
    hellloooooooo dude...

    i found this article and the ensuing debate very interesting, quite similar to other discussions i have had with you previously...

    just some points i thought may help..

    the bnp party scores every time they get any publicity. it doesnt matter whether they get good press or bad. every time anyone prints, posts, airs or discusses anything, you raise its public profile, so in essence, even with this post, you are helping to support the bnp... sorry.

    ( by the way, they actually came to my door campaining... was the funnyest thing ever, there were 2 of them, a very severe, yet modern looking 20 something woman, who actually held very astute postions on morality and economics and is clearly the new " face " of the modern party.... she was in fact very convining... it was how ever spoiled by her handler, a fifty something guy, in a cheap suit, who suffered from bnp tourettes. every time the lady made a point, he chimed in with a lovely bark, some thing along the lines of " send em back where they came from" and i swear once, a muffled " kill them all.." the fun parts was listening to all this while my normally placid dog attempted to chew through the wall to savage them...
  • Actually, I feel that I am helping democracy. I may dislike the viewpoint, but I should not ignore it.

    The danger is that we will become everything we hate. Once a friend, incensed by the BNP, said to me that, "All fanatics should be taken out and shot". He spoke without thinking. The danger of the BNP is not that they will gain power, they won't, but that our reaction to them will be so severe that they will gain unspoken support and we will no longer be the good guy.
  • Chimpy
    Not yet. Am on a strict diet of getting through my current reading list which with my rather prolific book buying habits is hard work! It's on my Amazon wishlist though.
  • Chimpy
    Banks is one of my favourite authors though!
  • Chimpy
    "Liberal != Libertarian is not correct."

    Indeed it isn't but Libertarian in the sense of the Paris Commune and communism has fuck all to do with the political tendency of Liberalism. Take a look at Classic Liberalism, the Liberal Party and the marriage between them and the Social Democrats to form the Lib Dems. These are basics.

    "I wrote a whole paper once on the idea of “Economic” as political position, I will try and find it and post it. Its is my own idea, and perhaps not something this article needs. I shall remove it."

    I rather figured this was the case. Not really an idea that caught on outside of you though was it? Economics is a key part of politics. Trying to separate it out as a political position on it's own seems to miss the point somewhat. The main issue isn't that you have your own idea just that you didn't communicate it was something different to the norm.

    What you seem to be getting at is this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

    Mind you I have a problem with the idea of post-Human anything. Err... hello we are still Human!
  • Well, I am not a post-humanist, I am more interested in post-scarcity. After all a post scarcity society, or better yet planet, has no need of resource wars, aggressive economic practice or terrorism.

    As for "economics as politics", I took the idea out because it needs explanation to some and was confusing the issue, it is actually a well known idea in academic circles and my expression of it merely required more than the space allowed.

    I agree that "post human" is misnamed utopian wish fulfilment. However, I also get the point that it is far enough from us now that a new name would be necessary.
  • Liberal != Libertarian is not correct. There is a very clear association between the two. Indeed the major UK Liberal party (Lib Dems) has a large Libertarian bent and many Libertarian concepts in its core. Consider Lembit Öpik! There is also a clear association with communism, especially what would be called "neo-communism".

    I wrote a whole paper once on the idea of "Economic" as political position, I will try and find it and post it. Its is my own idea, and perhaps not something this article needs. I shall remove it.

    REMOVED: "there are the economists (groups of people dedicated to the church of ATM, these people often float between parties based on their expressed economic views)"

    The desire of the post human liberals is basically a combination of a one-world government with utopian economics. The basic premise is to move away from "earning" money, to a system allocating resources. An example in fiction would be The Culture in the Iain M Bank's novels. A sort of Enlightened Communism.

    "You realise there is more to globalisation than corporations right?"

    Absolutely, there is government in bed with corporations too! In all seriousness, globalisation is mostly based on economic factors, but social and cultural movements are prevalent too. My problem is with the uncontrolled markets making decisions that effect human lives. The market is not a good judge, and is stacked only to make its players richer.

    I don't mind "the rich", by the way. Inherently. I guess my issue stems from my job, which is the building of process solutions; I recognise that the market process is not in humanity's long term favour.


    Thanks for your comment on the site template, I will pass them onto Cesca; who designed it.
  • Chimpy
    Just to add this skin is much better than the previous one. I can actually navigate round the site now. :)
  • Chimpy
    Liberal != Libertarian, especially in the communist sense of the word. Look at the political tradition of Liberalism especially in this country.

    Your definition of economist is wack and makes no sense. If you mean rich person say rich person. Economics and economists are entirely different. Murdoch is a rich chap that changes opinion with the political wind and what will make him richer, Keynes is an economist.

    As for the economy of an anarcho-syndicalist society of course it wouldn't be one we'd recognise based on current economics. I know that and never suggested it would be. I think it's a utopian economics unlikely to wed well with humans but there you go.

    You realise there is more to globalisation than corporations right?
  • <img src="http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/EU_Leader_Web_1.jpg" />
  • "The first person to describe himself as a libertarian was Joseph Déjacque, an early French anarchist communist. The word stems from the French word libertaire, and was used to evade the French ban on anarchist publications." - WIKI

    See the link?

    By Economists in a political sense, I mean the type of person who changes political views based on financial matters. Usually the ultra rich who are "above" the results of any social program other than financial ones. An example would be, a newspaper magnet changing his views and party support based on a government bringing in legislation that would effect him.

    Also, your comment, "in an anarcho-syndicalist society there is going to be an economy!"

    Not one you would recognise!

    "Syndicalism is an alternative co-operative economic system. Anarcho-syndicalists view it as a potential force for revolutionary social change, replacing capitalism and the State with a new society democratically self-managed by workers." - WIKI

    "Pro-Europe but anti-globalisation"

    I agree this is for another post, but in simple terms I like the idea of being more European, but I do't like the idea of unleashing the corporations on other countries. Have you seen the film, "The Corporation?"

    I would not be surprised that even by only turning up, the BNP will do good out of QT, especially because he was bullied somewhat. Not surprised, but disappointed.
  • Chimpy
    Got to say I LOL'd hard at the idea we are primarily a Christian Democrat country and that Liberals, Communists and Anarchists are all closely related. Also the idea that there are economists as a separate entity. Does somewhat miss the point of socialism, no? After all even in an anarcho-syndicalist society there is going to be an economy!

    Pro-Europe but anti-globalisation is an interesting one too but I'd like you to expand that in another blog post.

    I'm certainly not going to argue with egalitarianism though. :)

    The Question Time performance was such a loss for the BNP. Griffin looked stupid and has shot himself in the foot with his comments on London being "ethnically cleansed".
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