Headshots In Airsoft: Argument For Full Face Protection

October 22, 2007  |  Airsoft, Featured Airsoft, Philosophy
closeThis post was pub­lished over 700 days ago and there­fore may not rep­res­ent cur­rent Out­side Con­text think­ing or opin­ion. Please, do not let that detract from your enjoy­ment of it!

The quotes are from vari­ous people in the arnies air­soft dis­cus­sion on this issue I have recently become embroiled in a very heated com­munity debate regard­ing head­shots in airsoft.

I am going here present the full force of my argu­ment and sound a call for what I believe is the most import­ant change needed to the sport; the man­dat­ory wear­ing of full face pro­tec­tion. Air­soft is a lot more than simply a tar­get sport. Air­soft is the recre­ation of a con­flict played out as a skir­mish­ing encounter with a set of rules and struc­ture. These encoun­ters are essen­tially split into two dis­tinct game types, which has lead to two dif­fer­ent feel­ings regard­ing the issue under dis­cus­sion. Firstly we have Urban/CQB envir­on­ments. CQB is close, very close and shots to the head are very com­mon indeed. Given the lim­ited space avail­able in CQB envir­on­ments even un-aimed shots have a very good chance of strik­ing the head. Urban is sim­ilar. The main dif­fer­ence between Urban and CQB is that in Urban range is more mixed. For whilst it can be as close as CQB in parts, such as in houses, it can also be almost wood­land ranges in places. How­ever, this does not in any­way reduce the amount of hits to the head as people are often shoot­ing at shapes in win­dows or door­ways and the nat­ural defens­ive pos­i­tion is to hold the body behind cover and only show the smal­lest part of the head and gun.

Hiding in the open

“Aim should always be centre-mass any­way. But if a head is all I can see, I will aim for it.”

The second type of envir­on­ment is wood­land. In wood­land dis­tance is rarely less than 20ft. Fixed pos­i­tion assaults do bring the play­ers within that dis­tance, but gen­er­ally wood­land play­ers are less likely to be face to face with their oppon­ents. This how­ever, again, does not reduce the num­ber of head­shots because of the increased use of sniper rifles in open play and the tar­get­ing of the head by such players.

“I dont worry about head­shots. Got one on me, take it. I expect the same in return. If its a prob­lem, we won’t play together. To not take a shot on someone when its applic­able is retarded. Oth­er­wise dont call it “milsim”.”

The rule makers in CQB have long known about the prob­lems of close con­tact and there are plenty of meth­ods to reduce the risk of injury to the play­ers. In some sites a hel­met is man­dat­ory (long­moor), in oth­ers all CQB envir­on­ments are single shot (Spectre) and at some the choice is left up to the player who receives all the pos­sible encour­age­ment to wear full face pro­tec­tion (Elec­trow­erkz). In these envir­on­ments play­ers know that head­shots will not only hap­pen, but are actu­ally played for. The head is often the first thing seen of the oppon­ent apart from his fire­arm and ‘select­ive’ tar­get­ing is impossible.

“I per­son­ally think head shots should only be viewed as a last resort option, only to be taken very rarely for one simple reas­son. Air­soft is sup­posed to be, above and before any­thing else, fun. I you end up acci­dent­ally injur­ing someone by tak­ing a head shot, it’s highly unlikely they’ll be hav­ing too much fun after­wards. Like­wise, in my case at least, it’s highly unlikely I’d be hav­ing too much fun afterwards.”

The rule-makers in wood­land rarely come into con­tact with such con­di­tions, but still efforts are made to reduce injur­ies. Many sites require snipers to have a min­imum engage dis­tance and the dir­ect tar­get­ing of the head is frowned upon as unsport­ing. Some require that guns are switched to semi in cer­tain games or scen­arios, or that people should ‘bang dead’ an oppon­ent who is very close without fir­ing. It is against this back­ground that the argu­ments arise. The fol­low­ing are my thoughts on the sub­ject of headshots.

A face mask would have saved this

Why aim for the head?

“Ah, I’m not going to vote. I shoot at whatever I can see. If the head is the only part that I can see than I’ll shoot at it because that means one less per­son on the other team. If the torso and head is all I can see then I’ll aim in the gen­eral dir­ec­tion and hit some­thing. I don’t really care which…”

Head­shots are an import­ant part of the game of air­soft. Air­soft is an attempt to make a ‘safe’ ver­sion of a real battle, where people can come and play out com­bat scen­arios without being killed or injured. All aspects of com­bat are played out with weapons of all types and pyro’s tak­ing the place of explos­ives and gren­ades. As such, in a real battle the fight­ers would of course aim for whatever comes into range first. Unsur­pris­ingly this would include the head as a primary tar­get as a shot to the head is usu­ally fatal. I have yet to come across an air­soft site that has banned head­shots all together. In fact I have only seen such a rule set in a paint­ball match and frankly I felt it made a mock­ery of the game. All rules in a true sport are pushed and con­sidered for advant­age. In the paint­ball game I men­tioned; play­ers showed only their heads and their guns in the open, safe in the know­ledge that they were immor­tal this way. It made for quite a strange sight I can tell you!

“Since I play CQB and full face mask is required. I’m kind of appre­ci­at­ive if they go for the head­shot as it doesn’t hurt a bit. But I under­stand where if people are not using full face mask then that would be dan­ger­ous. But since they have the option to wear full face mask. It’s their own fault for choos­ing not to. Maybe they like get­ting hit in the face.”

It is this aspect of ‘sports­man­ship’ that also leads to tar­get­ing of the head in air­soft. Often in our sport people do not ‘take their hits’. This is con­sidered the worst pos­sible offence and rightly so. Some sites run a total ‘no second chances’ rule on this. We can all agree that there are many reas­ons why someone might not take a hit to the body, from the testoster­one ruled rage redu­cing the pain of the hit, to the BB strik­ing soft webbing and not mak­ing any noise nor being able to be felt, to plain out­right cheat­ing. The gen­eral opin­ion of such play is split into two camps. The first advoc­ates ‘lacing the bas­tard’, which as I will claim later increases injur­ies and cre­ates a big­ger prob­lem. The other opin­ion advoc­ates shoot­ing them in the head. Why? Because: almost every­one ‘takes the hit’ from a head­shot. Even if the per­son can­not feel it, they will cer­tainly hear it. Only the very worst of offend­ers will not walk after such treat­ment and at my club these people are found and banned (Mar­cus, I am look­ing at you).

Lacing = wife not happy!


Isn’t shoot­ing to the head unsporting?

“If it’s an issue for you to get shot in the face, wear a mask. End, full stop.”

As I men­tioned, in CQB you have little choice regard­ing where on the oppon­ent you place your shot. A vast amount of the game is played at a very fast pace and in an envir­on­ment of large amounts of full con­tact fire. In such pres­sur­ised play­ing fields it is impossible to not aim at whatever tar­get the oppon­ent places in view. A player tends to find a style of play that works for them and sticks to it. The greater prob­lem is this: air­soft hurts a lot. In CQB lacings are com­mon and great pain can be both given and received by the play­ers. This has led to the increased use of armour. I myself have a full level 3 armour set that totally pro­tects my body from the rig­ors of ‘hard­core’ CQB. As my air­soft play­ing got bet­ter I slowly removed parts and now wear only a light jacket, gloves, cup, mask and hel­met. How­ever, the gen­eral trend is in the other direction.

Basho in lvl 3 CQB loadout

People are now wear­ing such amounts of armour and com­bat vests that hits to the body are not felt at all. In fact, such play­ers need a full lacing before they will even walk. Is this a prob­lem with cheat­ing? No, it is a nat­ural reac­tion to the essen­tial pain of air­soft and the fact that we all have work to go to/women to sleep with and both bosses and babes hate huge welts over your body.

My current 'lighter' loadout

I played once, one time only, before I got a hel­met. I played with full face from the start. Pain is not my friend and my wife hates the injur­ies I was return­ing home with.

“Too right it’s unsport­ing! As XXXX says, most of us don’t play for the pain and don’t play to cause oth­ers pain — to delib­er­ately hurt someone is sick and any­one with that atti­tude should be be banned from sites.”

What this trend has led to in CQB is a dir­ect tar­get­ing of the head of the oppon­ent. Espe­cially when using pis­tols or single shot. If one does not shoot them in the head there is a fair pos­sib­il­ity that they wont take the hit at all and noth­ing is more aggrav­at­ing that win­ning a battle but being laced by the oppon­ent after they are dead “because they didn’t feel it mate” etc. This has become a vicious circle and one which the mar­shalling team at my site do everything in their power to pre­vent. With a firm limit on FPS, play­ers will use whatever advant­age they can gain. This is not unsport­ing. This is the key to a sport. Take fen­cing. A hun­dred years ago one was not sup­posed to block fen­cing attacks and cer­tainly not counter attack. This was con­sidered un-gentlemanly. Com­pared to the sport today, such anti­quated notions are com­ical. Moreover, and even more rel­ev­ant fen­cers never wore masks. It took many many deaths before fen­cing became a proper sport and took the safety of its play­ers ser­i­ously. The last death in fen­cing was in the 80’s and unsur­pris­ingly masks are essen­tial. This is because as the art evolved into the sport people became com­pet­it­ive. Once this hap­pens, safety can no longer be a mat­ter of choice; it must be mandated.

Fencing protective equipment

My argu­ment is essen­tially this: If air­soft is going to sur­vive as a sport and even become fully recog­nised, we must be safe and this must be in the rules.

Why not just ban headshots?

“I always head­shot when assault­ing. End of.”

BB’s rain down in all dir­ec­tions dur­ing play. On both wood­land and CQB, sup­port weapons and very fast fir­ing guns are com­mon­place. Wood­land play­ers often fire burst way in excess of CQB play­ers and some CQB play­ers have guns that fire over 42 BB’s a second! In such play, can we really not expect some BB’s to hit the oppon­ents head? No. Some anec­dotal evid­ence: In one game I was play­ing I saw a very nasty acci­dent. A guy wear­ing only shoot­ing glasses (pro­fes­sional ones held on with an elastic band mind) took a burst from 20ft away. Now the burst was aimed in his gen­eral dir­ec­tion as he had stepped out into fire and not spe­cific­ally aimed at his head and indeed most of it missed him. But from my vant­age point of next to him in cover I saw the BB’s that missed pass behind him and bounce off the wall. One in par­tic­u­lar then passed back over his shoulder, very close to his ear, and entered the lens of the glasses at the rear. It then bounced back off the lens into his eye. The effect was devastating.

Trip in almost the same spot as the accident

So why not make goggles the man­dat­ory standard?

“If a head is all you can see then you are aim­ing to elim­in­ate the oppos­i­tion from the game before they elim­in­ate you. You are either doing this because that is your object­ive or they are pre­vent­ing you from com­plete­ing your object­ive. I do not play this game to cause pain but if a head is all I can see then that is what I am going to fire at. Don’t like it? Get a full face mask. I did.”

Far more com­mon than the ser­i­ous danger of eye injury is teeth dam­age. Both in wood­land from sniper fire or lacings and in CQB. One chap, who I had warned about this simply smiled at me and pulled up his scarf to cover his mouth. “I won’t open my mouth,” he said. In the very first game he came around a corner to come face to face with me. We both instinct­ively tar­geted each other, but I was faster and shot him in the chin with a single BB from my pis­tol. The red welt was clear and I again said that he should bor­row a full face mask. Again he simply smiled, thanked me for shoot­ing him only the once and went to regen’. At the end of the night he was still smil­ing, but with one less tooth. He had run scream­ing into a full auto bar­rage of fire and had had the bot­tom of his front tooth shot clean out. A very clear circle of white was miss­ing from his mouth. I shook my head at him and told him where the nearest cash­point was. He smiled again and left the venue.

Get a helmet! Full face would have saved him

Full face would have saved him that injury. Noth­ing else, not ‘avoid­ing shoot­ing the face’ or ‘ban­ning head­shots’ or even ‘pen­al­ising the player who shot him’ would have had any effect on the dam­age. And con­sider this, I had dir­ectly (albeit instinct­ively) tar­geted his head whereas the lacing that took his tooth had not. I con­tend that it is not the tar­get­ing of the head, but the lacing that causes the most injuries.

The argu­ments against full face, are they not convincing?

The argu­ments I have read and heard in my time against full face pro­tec­tion range from the piti­ful to the stupid:

  1. “I can’t see down my sights”. This is very easy to fix, by the simple pur­chase of a riser.
  2. “It doesn’t fit my load out.” Wan­na­bies and gear­dos are the scourge of this sport. I have even seen people with goggles on their hel­mets, but only shoot­ing glasses on their face! This is just ask­ing for injury.
  3. “I wear a scarf.” Scarf’s don’t stop anything.
  4. “I will close my mouth.” This is per­haps the stu­pid­est argu­ment. When shot most people let out a man­dat­ory noise, it is the word “hit!” In 99% of sites you have to say this sound. Try shout­ing hit with your mouth closed. You can’t, this so called argu­ment is stupid.
  5. “I am over 18 and can do what I like.” Well, I am over 30 and I can’t. I can’t leave my fen­cing mask at home, I can’t spar at Kar­ate without a floor mat and I shouldn’t be able to sign away my safety at airsoft.
  6. “I play wood­land, we don’t need full face.” I play all types of air­soft and I have taken head shots in wood­land that have scared the crap out of me. Only two weeks ago I must have been hit with an 8mm gas rifle (we sus­pect the M1 Garand) because I clonked me in the face from what seemed like MILES away. Wood­land play is often not crono’ed, and as far as I am con­cerned an injury from a ‘wood­land’ AEG can be much worse than a CQB one.

So what are you suggesting?

I say that all air­soft play­ers should be forced to wear either full face pro­tec­tion in the form of a paint­ball or mesh mask, or in the form of a goggles/neoprene com­bin­a­tion. It is only when we take safety ser­i­ously and man­date pro­tec­tion for our play­ers that this fledgling sport has a chance of main­stream suc­cess and national recog­ni­tion. Images of people without teeth, bleed­ing gums and shot out ears hurts our sport and we must do some­thing about it.

The mixed option

Regards,

Basho

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  1. Well, my copy of this post at Arnies cer­tainly stirred up debate! Even­tu­ally get­ting locked at 3 pages. Whatever else, I proved that there is a REAL split of opin­ion on this one, for while I was mainly bat­tling my pos­istion on my own, I recieved many PM’s and a few phone calls say­ing that people agreed with me. But lacked the will to jump into the fire.

    Essen­tially then, please look after yourselves.

  2. Brian pooley

    i couldnt agree more i used to wear just ess goggles (good for the eyes but not full protection.

    because of the influ­ence of my squad i believed that clos­ing the lips would pre­vent dam­age to my teeth but in truth most high powered guns would go right through…

    even stock guns can take out teeth.

    im sad to say i lost a tooth this way i just hope my Jt spec­tra flex8 grey goggles will pro­tect my teeth and my eyes.. since alot of paint­ball masks have weak rub­ber instead of solid stuff between you and the bbs.

  3. Full face pro­tec­tion is about the only thing that can and should be use if you want to stay safe.
    Any­one not wear­ing one deserve what ever hap­pen to them. And it is not if some­thing hap­pen to them, it is only when!!!

  4. i totally agree with basho.i star­ted with goggles only and EACH time i played went home with a face injury: i recently bought a full face mask and i don’t care what it looks like.if i want to get hurt,i’ll join the army.playing for sport must be as safe as pos­sible in order to be taken seriuosly.

  5. I wear glasses only and last sum­mer i got shot in the tooth and had to visit the dent­ist. fine that was my prob­lem for wear­ing only glasses and i am look­ing for lower face/mouth pro­tec­tion now as its the logical step. but i dont agree that full face pro­tec­tion is the answer as there is soo much lim­it­a­tion. i have to say that i found the reas­ons lis­ted for argu­ments against full face very poor reas­ons, you should have lis­ted bet­ter reas­ons for argu­ments against such as:

    full face reduces your vis­ion and severly reduces your hear­ing. (very essen­tial to play­ing a good game for any player that does not just “spray and pray”)

    also the quite hor­rible fact that if you play on a decent sized site there is a lot of run­ning involved and (speak­ing from exper­i­ence) id try to reduce the amount of pro­tec­tion i wear as pos­sible to reduce the amount of sweat that lit­er­ally runs from a full face.harder to breath with full face also i have per­son­ally found.

    i also noticed the fact that full face are quite bulky and have a tend­ency to get caught or bash the terrain/walls etc.

    .…surely its a per­sonal pref­er­ence what a player wants to wear as they know the con­sequences but i also believe that there should be more options of masks, with more gauze lower face guards, slim­mer designs and the such (i.e. pro­tect­ing your teeth without the steam­ing of googles, restric­tion to breath­ing, hear­ing or too much sweat­ing). the bet­ter the options the higher the chance people will want to use face pro­tec­tion as i do without the restrictions.

  6. Here’s a solu­tion to many of the issues with fog­ging being the reason ppl don’t wear masks; seek out the masks that have the mesh screen over the eyes, and wear glasses under­neath. They wont fog up and they pro­tect against inferior bbs which WILL occa­sion­ally shat­ter against and thru the mesh of the mask.

  7. Don’t for­get that mouth guards can be used to pre­vent your teeth from being hit and crack­ing. I’ve seen a few people do it before. Oh, and mesh masks aren’t that safe. I’ve was at a cqb field where a guy next to me was wear­ing a mesh mask and at the start of the game, he was hit in the wire of the mask and the bb frag­men­ted and hit him right below his eye inside the mask. He was so scared after that he ren­ted a paint­ball mask at the field. Also, in a dusty/sandy envir­on­ment, if there is wind blow­ing dust around, and your wear­ing a mesh mask, well, you get the idea. I guess you could wear sunglasses or some­thing under the mesh mask in that case.

  8. I find the most simple solu­tion is to say wear what you want. I only play CQB and I pretty much only get shot in the face, but I only wear glasses and some­times a cap, if I get hit in the face its my fault, if it hurts then its my choice. In the Bris­tol Court­house its dark, I cant see squat through mesh and paint­ball style masks always steam up. When I play I accept that I may get shot any­where, what will be next– man­dat­ory cup pro­tec­tion? It’s a sport, lets not kill it.

    • The prob­lem is that you will lose teeth and then come com­plain­ing to me (the mar­shal) — I have seen over 10 people lose teeth and most whined about it.

  9. “The prob­lem is that you will lose teeth and then come com­plain­ing to me (the mar­shal) — I have seen over 10 people lose teeth and most whined about it.”

    I’d cer­tianly whine. To myself that I should have worn more protection.

    Do you think some­thing like Bolle 800’s with a thick balaclava would be enough pro­tec­tion? I’m mainly bot­herd about eyes and teeth here, at least everything else on my face would heal up…

    If not I really want to find a place to buy this in the UK: http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/888/203407888.jpg

    I refuse to wear mesh goggles, I’ve read things about bb’s split­ting and stuff com­ing through the mesh. I’d rather steam up and not be able to see for the rest of the game than not be able to see for the rest of my life.

    Thanks!

    • It is a myth about BBs shat­ter­ing through mesh. I wore mesh for the last 4 years and noth­ing has happened in any envir­on­ment. A few people I know use thew “thick balaclava” route, but frankly it is not full proof. If you play in a place that allows or even encour­ages head shots wear full face is my rule. Googles is always neces­sary rather than glasses. That mask you link is basic­ally a paint­ball mask — try justpaintball.co.uk they have some bril­liant masks. I use a HFC mesh mask sim­ilar to that one and it rocks.

  10. Thanks for the reply!

    I was think­ing of a combo like this:
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260311784582

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200343497093

    I have been paint­balling before and I found that the masks were quite heavy and slide down my face (maybe I have a weird shaped face, I don’t know, lol). My friend recently got a v-force paint­ball mask for air­soft and I have to say it’s very well made and dosn’t fog up. The only prob­lem is it is com­pletely impossible to use sights on guns with stocks, to the point where after one day of using it, he is con­sid­er­ing cut­ting it down. Disip­ite the fact that the one he got, accord­ing to a couple of reviews was “the low­est pro­file paint­ball mask you can get”.

    Two of my friends have a mask like this: http://www.swisslink.com/FS/1/Atom11769.jpg
    Which as long as you wear it with a balaclava, is per­fectly comft­able and looks ter­ri­fy­ing (always good). Without, it digs into your face and looks rather silly. I still don’t feel com­pletely safe in it. Ideally I’d want a sim­ilar mask the cov­ers the mouth and is snug with most of the face, but has a good anti-fog lens rather than mesh.

    Any­way, I’m not sure if you’ve seen this, but here you go: http://www.airsoftica.com/airsoft/mesh-masks-safe.html

    I’m not say­ing that you’re wrong or any­thing, I just want to know what you think of that, because you’ve been into air­soft alot longer than I have!

    Thanks agian,
    Andrew

  11. Thanks for all you help, I think I’ve found a solu­tion now. I thought about mak­ing a combo of some X800 clones and the mouth piece from a San­sei SG5 mask. But I didn’t know how dif­fi­cult it would be, then I was flick­ing through some ran­dom air­soft pho­tos on face­book and low and behold, someone has already done it.

    Not sure if you can veiw this: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=6886999&id=630290272

    You might have to join the (biggest, there are quite a few) air­soft group on face­book to view it, if you have one.

    Thanks agian,
    Andrew

  12. That’s a good combo. You will find the san­sei causes a lot of drool inside the mask though.

  13. This is cer­tainly help­ful stuff. I am stick­ing with this closely.
    Like­wise. I am glued to the topic. I can’t wait to see where this will go

  14. I think people should mind there own busi­ness… its optional… if people want to risk get­ting hurt that is up to them… if you feel so strong about it YOU wear a mask and stop try­ing to push it into everyone.

    There’s noth­ing more annoy­ing than bored people try­ing to nanny people… worry about your­self and stop try­ing to push your ways on to people.

    • This is my web­site pal, you are telling me what to do in my house. You are the worst sort of hypo­crite. As to the topic in ques­tion, well I was a senior mar­shal and safety officer for a major Air­soft site for over two years. I per­son­ally dealt with mul­tiple injur­ies, lost teeth, cut faces and, in one tra­gic instance, a life chan­ging eye injury. All were caused by a lack of full face. All. That gives me the right to sug­gest, on my own site, that we should do some­thing to make this sport safer.

  15. Well these are the side effect of this wild adven­tur­ous game. But if we take proper pre­cau­tions and wear whole body guard so we can have lot of fun in this game…There should be law on wear­ing full face and all because I saw some psy­cho guys who inten­tion­ally shoot on the for­head like they are tak­ing headshots.…

    .I know one site that sell all the cov­er­ing stuff on very very cheap prices. You can get manythings there. tokyohobby.net . I always won­der that to sell Tokyo Marui AK47 in just $205, isnt it great…

  16. Oh, I know it is adven­tur­ous — after all I have played it ser­i­ously for
    years now. How­ever, I don’t box without a gum shield, I don’t fence without
    a mask and I don’t air­soft without full face.

  17. Yeah that is safe way.…..

  18. I appre­ci­ated the point being made. So I find myself sid­ing with the article.

    Cer­taintly CQB needs face pro­tec­tion … but you only need to play it once to real­ise this.

    Any­one choos­ing to play CQB without full face is ask­ing for pain but moreover, is prob­ably not respect­ing the other play­ers. For those who wish to emu­late the real world, CQB oper­at­ors and swat teams appear to use full face pro­tec­tion any­way. so for me CQB is a no brainer.

    Wood­land and open play is to me not the same risk at all and in my opin­ion should not be lumped into the same cat­egory of risk as CQB.

    Sure there is risk, but there’s risk get­ting out of bed in the morn­ing and it’s not a per­fect world. I choose to make my own decision and take respons­ib­il­ity for it in the woodland.

  19. You make a fuck­ing intel­li­gent point. If any­one dis­agrees with you it’s not cause they have a point but because they haven’t though it out enough. Kudos on your logic and com­mon sense, we need more of it on this planet.

  20. I don’t think that it should be man­det­ory, player’s should be made more aware of the injurys that can occur but shouldn’t be forced to wear a full face mask, it’s up to per­son­nel preference.Half of my front tooth is fake because the bot­tom of it was broke off but it happened at home, injurys hap­pen, it’s life and I don’t think for­cing people into doing things they find uncom­fort­able will make the sport more main­stream it will push people away from it.I’m all for mak­ing people aware and per­son­nely for CQB I pref­ere full face masks but I like that it’s my choice to wear it and that I’m not forced to.

  21. rub­bish.…

    do less people drive cars because we have to wear seat belts?

  22. Thanks Tom, btw — I have added you to the whitel­ist for commenting.

  23. hi mate.. hope you dont mind, but i needed to make a point on another site, so i linked you up…

    your veiws are identical to mine on this sub­ject, and you’ve already writ­ten them down… hope thats ok..

    ive linked them here…

    http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread….

  24. You, my friend, are most welcome.

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