The state of Britain today…….

A collection of posts on a discussion I am having on the web:

QUOTE(Crazy_Harry @ Jun 15 2006, 08:05 PM)

there’s always someone, no matter what class you are supposed to be in, who thinks they are “entitled” to something for doing nothing.

Man, you have one giant chip on your shoulder about class. Didn’t John Major tell you we are all middle class now?

QUOTE(Crazy_Harry @ Jun 15 2006, 08:05 PM)

Anyone who disagrees with that statement might want to spend some time trying to pay the rent and council tax while working a “minimum wage” job.

If you are on minimum wage then you wont have your own flat , you will be on Housing Benefit and the council will pay your council tax (or rather I will via my contribution). This is called Council Tax Benefit.

What is hard is breaking the cycle… why?, well you get a kid and suddenly your *fruitcage*ed. You cannot break the dependency because you cannot work hard enough, nor make enough money, so why bother? Just get drunk on Merrydown cider and cheap wine, serve up the turkey twislers and die young from smoking related illness.

There is only so much help you can get, in the end you have to:

a. Be good at something.
b. Work you ######s off.

The rewards of getting out the trenches?

More work! So instead you will be crippled by house prices, pay tax, insurance and credit card bills forever, work 50 hours a week and spend all weekend getting ###### on Magners cider and Cloudy Bay wine. You will have to kiss your bosses ass and finally you will die of drink related illness.

Take your pick, because I cant see much difference.

The only way to avoid a trap is to know that it exists. So, this is your trap:

LIFE.

How to avoid this trap? Simple, realise that the world doesn’t owe you a *fruitcage* thing; there are people *fruitcage* dying all over this world in absolute agony and all you have to do is find a comfortable niche in the goddamn top 3% of the world population (even higher if you have a web connection).

In other words: ENGLISH MEN! Stop feeling sorry for yourself already!

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Reply from Carrion:

If you are on minimum wage then you wont have your own flat , you will be on Housing Benefit and the council will pay your council tax (or rather I will via my contribution). This is called Council Tax Benefit.

hate to tell you this sonny but alot of councils dont HAVE housing any more. from torbay council you will only get a council house AFTER youve had a kid, and been waiting in a bedsit for around 6 months.

also council tax benifit is a ###### to get, i know ive tried when i was earning less than £100 a week. rent was 50 so go figure if i deserved it or not. could i get any help could i bugger. all i got was well you could move back to your parents place ( i was 18 and the min wage at the time wqas 3.20 for me).

there were people on the dole actualy getting more a week than i was from basic benifits but becasue i was working it seems most of them were closed to me and if i quit then i wasnt eligable for anything at all. (there words)

as for that be good as something . im guessing you live or work in london . hers a hint you wages on AVERAGE are topped up by %20 for london weighting in an area where wages are already higher than average.

some people are managers in the westcountry who earn the same as a burger flipper in london. case point, a mate was a shift manager for tecos, he was earing in torquay a whopping 6.50 an hour. 6.50 for being a manager.

people who are good at something dont always get a job due to unemployment, lack of oppertunities (see also unemployment) and general bad luck

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My reply :

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a bedsit for around 6 months.

So you are not on the streets then? Right, housing, like I said.

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also council tax benifit is a ###### to get

It is means tested, you obviously had more means.

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there were people on the dole actualy getting more a week than i was from basic benifits but becasue i was working it seems most of them were closed to me and if i quit then i wasnt eligable for anything at all. (there words)

Ah, well, here we are agreeing with each other. It is far easier to give up and live the scummers life.

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as for that be good as something .

Being good at something. Like something you can make money on. Could be anything. Make doilies, or paint walls, or dig drains, or run ICI; you know, whatever.

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I’m guessing you live or work in london.

I actually live in Essex, but I do work in London. But I know all about the Torbay area in particular as my family comes from there and my Grandmother, cousins, uncle and aunt all live there still. In fact I was there a few weeks ago.

QUOTE

some people are managers in the westcountry who earn the same as a burger flipper in london.

A manager in Mc Donalds earns 25K.

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/jobs

QUOTE

people who are good at something dont always get a job due to unemployment, lack of opportunities (see also unemployment) and general bad luck

There is plenty of career advice out there, not only that but there are Career Development Loans, apprenticeships and part-time Uni’ courses aplenty.

Dont give me the “its tough at the bottom, you don’t know” as I come from the poorest family you can imagine.

WORK YOUR VERY SOUL TO DUST TO GET ON IN LIFE.
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Crazy_Harry’s reply:

yeah, basho, not sure which country YOU’RE living in, but you don’t get a council house because you’re on minimum wage. Tony and Maggie sold them all off, remember?

Neither do you get a council tax break. You still have to pay council tax if you are renting a flat based on soul-or-relationship-based occupancy from a landlord.

And yes, I have a GIANT chip on my shoulder about class, its called Being an Educated Englishman.

We’ve a culture that encourages people to believe they are entitled to something for nothing, largely because of the class system. When you’ve a bunch of fat toffs living off what are eseentially state benefits, and the fattest one being Her Madge, its no wonder that we generate a society that thinks the same way.

You go somewhere that has a monarchy that actually WORKS for a living, rather than just stagger through their days making utter arses of themselves, and you’ll see a bit of a difference in terms of society…

Its all very well using the old Tory BS of “no job? get on your bike!” but I’m from a poorer-than-poor background, and both my parents did that, and so did I, but you know what, its STILL tough at the bottom, and every time YOU get one step up from it, there are ten people who YOU tread on to get there.

Sorry, I just do not buy the BS that everyone can achieve the same as everyone else in life- if that was the case, who’d pick up after you?

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My Reply:

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…but you don’t get a council house because you’re on minimum wage.

…Neither do you get a council tax break.

…You still have to pay council tax if you are renting a flat based on soul-or-relationship-based occupancy from a landlord.

These three things are demonstrably wrong.

QUOTE

And yes, I have a GIANT chip on my shoulder about class, its called Being an Educated Englishman.

Really, then you should know that class is simply an illusion, based on familiarity.

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We’ve a culture that encourages people to believe they are entitled to something for nothing, largely because of the class system. When you’ve a bunch of fat toffs living off what are eseentially state benefits, and the fattest one being Her Madge, its no wonder that we generate a society that thinks the same way.

Ok, you are mixing a whole pot of things here.

QUOTE

We’ve a culture that encourages people to believe they are entitled to something for nothing,

People are entitled to a “hand up” out of despair. People are entitled to something for being an English person who needs the help.

Of course this is abused, and typically it has grown into an organic mess. People should be firmly pushed in the direction of becoming a usuful member of society.

QUOTE

When you’ve a bunch of fat toffs living off what are eseentially state benefits, and the fattest one being Her Madge, its no wonder that we generate a society that thinks the same way.

The Queen/king was once the leader in all the endevours of the country.. sadly, now they have much in common with Jordan. However, there have been times that the Queen has done great good in her position and it is clear to me that she takes the job VERY seriously. I would hardly accuse her of being lazy. Does the monarchy have a place in English future? Well, frankly I don’t like the idea of people like Blair being head of state, do you?

QUOTE

You go somewhere that has a monarchy that actually WORKS for a living

Monarchy, perhaps. Monarch, no. The Queen and Philip are definitely working monarchs. Her diary is all online and she is one busy grandmother.

QUOTE

Its all very well using the old Tory BS of “no job? get on your bike!” but I’m from a poorer-than-poor background, and both my parents did that, and so did I, but you know what, its STILL tough at the bottom, and every time YOU get one step up from it, there are ten people who YOU tread on to get there.

What can I say, I too am from a similar background and I don’t feel I have had to “tread” on anyone to get where I am. I don’t quite know in what context you mean?

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…everyone can achieve the same as everyone else in life[?]

Everyone WILL achieve the same in life; everyone will die and everyone will have lived.

How small is the life of a man, how plain and how short? I don’t really think “position” matters in the end. Life is life. Drink it in. Fight your fights and stand up for what you wish to stand up for. You do not judge the worth of someones life by their wealth do you? Or their material worth? or their fame?

Or even their achievements?

A man who lives the whole of his life in a cave and speaks only the bats that haunt the dark recess lives EVERY BIT as worthwhile a life as you or I.

When you realise that there is no score, no leader board and no tally at the end, you realise that you are actually living your life just for you and your in built value systems. So love, if you can, hate, if you so wish, but realise that you are born alone and you die alone the bit in the middle is life.

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More to come I am sure!